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BNP success is concerning
5:38pm Thursday 8th May 2008
Comments (37)While the results of the recent elections in London and around the country were excellent for the Conservatives, the success of the BNP in certain areas - relatively small but significant - leaves a sour taste.
I have always felt that voting in Barnet's Hale Ward is a fair reflection of public feeling in the country as a whole. The fact that around five per cent of those who voted in the Hale by-election supported a party that espouses such extremist policies is obviously a cause for some concern.
It is to be hoped that this was little more than a one-off expression of mid-term frustration with an incompetent Government, which will revert to more conventional voting at the next council and General Elections.
The acquisition by the BNP of a seat in the London Assembly is arguably an indictment of the proportional representation system of voting. Apart from the confusion the system causes within the electorate and the impersonal nature of voting for a party rather than an individual, it can result in undesirable fringe groups gaining inappropriate influence.
The constituency system is far safer and decisive and I would advocate that this be applied to all London Assembly seats at future elections.
Councillor Brian Gordon, Conservative, Hale Ward
Your Say Your Times
PR Rules!, says...
9:50pm Thu 8 May 08
Brian, I don't much like the BNP's politics but you really are a sad man on whom, a free British education has been wasted.
Your statement would draw the reverse side of that which you raise and also add fuel to nationalists and racists.
Israel uses a system of proportional representation to elect political parties to the parliament, called the Knesset.
This 'indictment of proportional representation'is true reflection of participation in any democratic process that includes Israeli-Arabs.
Proportional Representation got record numbers to the ballot box and, God Forbid if one had to vote for an individual like you who seems to be tinged with a drop of hate for anybody else's views.
Please Brian, Gaza and Palestine, it aint.
Your statement would draw the reverse side of that which you raise and also add fuel to nationalists and racists.
Israel uses a system of proportional representation to elect political parties to the parliament, called the Knesset.
This 'indictment of proportional representation'is true reflection of participation in any democratic process that includes Israeli-Arabs.
Proportional Representation got record numbers to the ballot box and, God Forbid if one had to vote for an individual like you who seems to be tinged with a drop of hate for anybody else's views.
Please Brian, Gaza and Palestine, it aint.
Reality, Bites says...
10:58pm Thu 8 May 08
Proportional Representation is true democracy in action, rather than rule by the single biggest faction.
I can understand why opponents of democracy would be upset by anything which allowed democratic representation. But Brian Gordon will just have to get over it.
I can understand why opponents of democracy would be upset by anything which allowed democratic representation. But Brian Gordon will just have to get over it.
Matt J, says...
9:03am Fri 9 May 08
Cllr Brian Gorden, you seem to think that because people had the chance to elect a small party that you don't support proportional represention should be ended. It's a sad indictment of your belief in democracy if you want to change the rules the moment someone you don't like makes progress.
How would you feel if your rivals labeled your party extremist and started trying to change the rules to prevent you from winning represention. After-all, plenty of people called the Conservatives racist during the last mayoral campaign!
How would you feel if your rivals labeled your party extremist and started trying to change the rules to prevent you from winning represention. After-all, plenty of people called the Conservatives racist during the last mayoral campaign!
Janet, London says...
9:08am Fri 9 May 08
Keep up the anti BNP snearing, it really helps to wake people up when they see the gravy trainers becoming ever more nasty and vindictive.
Perhaps you could break the mould Brian and actually argue against specific BNP policies? Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be for?
Perhaps you could break the mould Brian and actually argue against specific BNP policies? Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be for?
Rupert Hargreaves, London says...
9:17am Fri 9 May 08
Hey Brian, what do you think of Trevor Phillips reported comment in the Scottish Herald that the BNP (and I assume the 130,000 people who voted democratically for them in London) are "LESS THAN HUMAN"?
Very balanced and tolerant statement eh?
Link: http://www.theherald
.co.uk/news/other/di
splay.var.1332541.0.
0.php
Very balanced and tolerant statement eh?
Link: http://www.theherald
.co.uk/news/other/di
splay.var.1332541.0.
0.php
Giles, London says...
9:44am Fri 9 May 08
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure.
2)The BNP is not extreme - the Tory class politics which they try to hide is extreme and inappropriate as well and ignoring the immigration issue is negligent to say the least.
3)Conventional? conventional is returning a Labour government, but presumably you don't want that convention.
4)An indictment of PR - the people voted, why not let them decide - don't you believe in democracy? The first passed the post is plainly undemocratic, too simplistic and probably illegal by European Law, the PR system does not have to be complex, and you insult the people by maintaining they don't understand it (a typical Tory view).
5) The BNP is not fringe any more. What gives you the right to be the arbiter of what is desirable or not?
6) I am surpried your letter was even published as it is absurd and merely an ill-disguised attempt to bolster support for yourself and the Tory Party at the expense of democracy.As for the 'personal' nature of a non-PR system, the fact that people can see clearly that their local Tory MPs are caiming hundreds of thousands of pounds in 'expenses'and doing little else could impact negatively on the Party. Have you not thought of that?
2)The BNP is not extreme - the Tory class politics which they try to hide is extreme and inappropriate as well and ignoring the immigration issue is negligent to say the least.
3)Conventional? conventional is returning a Labour government, but presumably you don't want that convention.
4)An indictment of PR - the people voted, why not let them decide - don't you believe in democracy? The first passed the post is plainly undemocratic, too simplistic and probably illegal by European Law, the PR system does not have to be complex, and you insult the people by maintaining they don't understand it (a typical Tory view).
5) The BNP is not fringe any more. What gives you the right to be the arbiter of what is desirable or not?
6) I am surpried your letter was even published as it is absurd and merely an ill-disguised attempt to bolster support for yourself and the Tory Party at the expense of democracy.As for the 'personal' nature of a non-PR system, the fact that people can see clearly that their local Tory MPs are caiming hundreds of thousands of pounds in 'expenses'and doing little else could impact negatively on the Party. Have you not thought of that?
Rog T, Mill Hill says...
6:22pm Fri 9 May 08
Giles, I would suggest to you that if the BNP want people to work with them, they start by doing the following.
1. Announce that anyone prosecuted for any sort of racially aggrevated assault will be thrown out of the party for life.
2. Announce that they respect the rights of people of all faiths to worship as they please in mosques, churches or wherever they like.
On a personal note I'd like to see them answer the question which they have dodged every time I've posed it. I got a cab ride from an Iraqi Asylum seeker from Basra. He fled with his family in fear of his life, after working with the British forces there.
He did this in the belief that we would provide him with a better future for him and his family.
The local militias made threats so he came here. Do the BNP think we should send him home to certain death as a collaborator. Would they help him in his asylum appeal. Would they allow him to worship in a mosque of his choice.
This man is a brave man who helped our country. He would rather live in Iraq but cannot. He is very westernised and civilised, which is why he worked against radical Islamic militias.
Why have the BNP dodged these questions every time I've asked them.
1. Announce that anyone prosecuted for any sort of racially aggrevated assault will be thrown out of the party for life.
2. Announce that they respect the rights of people of all faiths to worship as they please in mosques, churches or wherever they like.
On a personal note I'd like to see them answer the question which they have dodged every time I've posed it. I got a cab ride from an Iraqi Asylum seeker from Basra. He fled with his family in fear of his life, after working with the British forces there.
He did this in the belief that we would provide him with a better future for him and his family.
The local militias made threats so he came here. Do the BNP think we should send him home to certain death as a collaborator. Would they help him in his asylum appeal. Would they allow him to worship in a mosque of his choice.
This man is a brave man who helped our country. He would rather live in Iraq but cannot. He is very westernised and civilised, which is why he worked against radical Islamic militias.
Why have the BNP dodged these questions every time I've asked them.
William J. Gibbons, Calgary, Alberta, Canada says...
6:44pm Fri 9 May 08
Sir,
The BNP are gaining votes simply because many white, working class Britons are feeling ignored or forgotten by the Li-Dems and the Tories. Add to this the continuing demise of the UKIP, the BNP will only gain in strength and numbers.
I emigrated from the UK to Canada in 1994, and now see an increasing number of other Brits coming here, including over 100 police officers, who now patrol the streets of Calgary. And more are coming.
Canada's civil society, parliamentary system and emigration policies mirror the UK's very closely indeed. Already we are experiencing ethnic gangs in our major cities which are beginning to look like war zones. If Canada does not wake up to the problems that mass immigration is causing in the UK and some European countries, then I fear that Canada will follow.
The BNP are gaining votes simply because many white, working class Britons are feeling ignored or forgotten by the Li-Dems and the Tories. Add to this the continuing demise of the UKIP, the BNP will only gain in strength and numbers.
I emigrated from the UK to Canada in 1994, and now see an increasing number of other Brits coming here, including over 100 police officers, who now patrol the streets of Calgary. And more are coming.
Canada's civil society, parliamentary system and emigration policies mirror the UK's very closely indeed. Already we are experiencing ethnic gangs in our major cities which are beginning to look like war zones. If Canada does not wake up to the problems that mass immigration is causing in the UK and some European countries, then I fear that Canada will follow.
George Deighton, london says...
7:21pm Fri 9 May 08
I would suggest that all anti BNP snork sniffing supporters who scribble their rubbish on these sites walk down to their local mosque and just walk in.
The same as any tom dick or Ali can walk into a Christian church.
Then I suggest any tom dick or Alan chats up an Asian girl and walks her down the street where she lives with his hand in hers, I think an experience of two such events for the anti BNP supporter would be an absolute wonderful taste of what the banana British republic as in store for them.
To all those left of Watford , where were all your ethnic colleagues on May 4th when Richard Barnbrooke was elected the the GLA looking at the film footage they were all white, so get real you soapy looking scruffs, not even the immigrants supports your cause..!!
.
The same as any tom dick or Ali can walk into a Christian church.
Then I suggest any tom dick or Alan chats up an Asian girl and walks her down the street where she lives with his hand in hers, I think an experience of two such events for the anti BNP supporter would be an absolute wonderful taste of what the banana British republic as in store for them.
To all those left of Watford , where were all your ethnic colleagues on May 4th when Richard Barnbrooke was elected the the GLA looking at the film footage they were all white, so get real you soapy looking scruffs, not even the immigrants supports your cause..!!
.
PR Rules!, says...
7:46pm Fri 9 May 08
Brian, there you go, as I pointed out and very cleverly disguised by GILES comment:
I'm also not too sure how to read Mr Gibbons's comments, given that half my family emigrated to Halifax Nova Scotia in 1970, some of those relatives were born in India of Anglo-Irish parents.
Gang culture seems to be part of North America.Canada has probably followed and mirrored Uncle Sam next door for years.
People emigrate for very many reasons and because of Opportunity , The Vietnamese,Kenyan Ugandan Asians and countless others have contributed to Canada.
William, I would assert that is precisely why you emigrated to Canada. Oh Canada! you certainly got one in 1994.
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure.
5) The BNP is not fringe any more.
I'm also not too sure how to read Mr Gibbons's comments, given that half my family emigrated to Halifax Nova Scotia in 1970, some of those relatives were born in India of Anglo-Irish parents.
Gang culture seems to be part of North America.Canada has probably followed and mirrored Uncle Sam next door for years.
People emigrate for very many reasons and because of Opportunity , The Vietnamese,Kenyan Ugandan Asians and countless others have contributed to Canada.
William, I would assert that is precisely why you emigrated to Canada. Oh Canada! you certainly got one in 1994.
Rog T, Mill Hill says...
8:28pm Fri 9 May 08
George Deighton,
I've been to a couple of Mosques and they've always been friendly and welcoming. The basis of their religion is to proseletyse, so they are bound to welcome you. I guess if you go in and start making a fuss you will get the same reception as a Protestant would if he made a fuss in a Northern Irish RC church.
As to your point about holding hands with a Muslim girl. My now deceased business partner married a Turkish Muslim. He was as white as they come, looked a bit like Henry VIII actually. To the best of my knoweledge the main source of disapproving comments were from people like you. His wife's family were always fine with him.
Having said that I totally agree that a minority of Muslims will behave in an atrocious manner towards inter faith couples. What I would never do is seek to use this as an excuse to behave badly myself. I also know West Indians who've been beaten up for going out with White Girls. Rise above it, don't sink.
By the way I notice you didn't answer the question about the bloke from Basra, which I asked, then again you never do !!!
I've been to a couple of Mosques and they've always been friendly and welcoming. The basis of their religion is to proseletyse, so they are bound to welcome you. I guess if you go in and start making a fuss you will get the same reception as a Protestant would if he made a fuss in a Northern Irish RC church.
As to your point about holding hands with a Muslim girl. My now deceased business partner married a Turkish Muslim. He was as white as they come, looked a bit like Henry VIII actually. To the best of my knoweledge the main source of disapproving comments were from people like you. His wife's family were always fine with him.
Having said that I totally agree that a minority of Muslims will behave in an atrocious manner towards inter faith couples. What I would never do is seek to use this as an excuse to behave badly myself. I also know West Indians who've been beaten up for going out with White Girls. Rise above it, don't sink.
By the way I notice you didn't answer the question about the bloke from Basra, which I asked, then again you never do !!!
Brian Gaza, Mill Hill says...
9:25pm Fri 9 May 08
How can anybody say they like seeing the BNP standing in elections? breeding rascism, intolerance and fear!
Rog T has stated that he likes seeing the BNP standing in elections around standing in local elections around Barnet. By doing this he has said that he likes seeing an occurance which promotes fear in and attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, other political groups, and anyone who is different in anyway. However he does have form: he regularly attacks people who have differring views.
The only people
who like seeing the BNP standing in elections are closet supporters of their aims.
Rog T has stated that he likes seeing the BNP standing in elections around standing in local elections around Barnet. By doing this he has said that he likes seeing an occurance which promotes fear in and attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, other political groups, and anyone who is different in anyway. However he does have form: he regularly attacks people who have differring views.
The only people
who like seeing the BNP standing in elections are closet supporters of their aims.
PR Rules!, says...
10:48pm Fri 9 May 08
Brian Gaza, where in the two above posts does Rog T say he likes the BNP or their politic? I must be blind.
You sound exactly like Another Type of racist who does not like living in a free democratic diverse society. Some of my relatives are Anglo-Indian or Irish Indian some brown,some white and very Catholic, they don't support the BNP or fear them. They understand how democracy works having lived and been educated in the largest democracy, It also had a Jewish community in every major city, spoke and many still speak national language as fluently as Hebrew.I shared my childhood alongside them. Do you know where that is?
There is little difference between your view and the BNP. You do the English Language and our Modern Diverse Britain honed in the colonies, a great disservice, you be a bit like Brian Gordon.
Sir,You owe Rog T an apology? for more reasons than one would care to think.
You sound exactly like Another Type of racist who does not like living in a free democratic diverse society. Some of my relatives are Anglo-Indian or Irish Indian some brown,some white and very Catholic, they don't support the BNP or fear them. They understand how democracy works having lived and been educated in the largest democracy, It also had a Jewish community in every major city, spoke and many still speak national language as fluently as Hebrew.I shared my childhood alongside them. Do you know where that is?
There is little difference between your view and the BNP. You do the English Language and our Modern Diverse Britain honed in the colonies, a great disservice, you be a bit like Brian Gordon.
Sir,You owe Rog T an apology? for more reasons than one would care to think.
Brian Gaza, Mill Hill says...
11:02pm Fri 9 May 08
Dear PR Rules,
The argument which you have just posted does not make sense, sorry.
I have critised the BNP for harming all manor of minority groups, whilst you have suggested that I am opposed to all manor of minority groups. Sorry but your argument just does not add up.
And if you want to read Rog T stating that he likes seeing the BNP standing in local elections around Barnet you only have to look at other stories on this site.
Lets just get it on the record: I dislike the BNP because they cause fear and provoke attacks on all manor of minoroity groups.
Bit of a weak argument by you PR but 9 of 10 for effort.
The argument which you have just posted does not make sense, sorry.
I have critised the BNP for harming all manor of minority groups, whilst you have suggested that I am opposed to all manor of minority groups. Sorry but your argument just does not add up.
And if you want to read Rog T stating that he likes seeing the BNP standing in local elections around Barnet you only have to look at other stories on this site.
Lets just get it on the record: I dislike the BNP because they cause fear and provoke attacks on all manor of minoroity groups.
Bit of a weak argument by you PR but 9 of 10 for effort.
PR Rules!, says...
12:37am Sat 10 May 08
Sorry, you said:
So you are intolerant to Rog T's views AGAINST the BNP ideology and also, to his view on the democratic process, it makes him a racist as follows:
As for promoting, fear,attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, you are in danger of losing your sight and ignoring the fact that there are SOME groups carrying out such heinous acts with tragic consequences.
Pray do tell me how many instances of attacking or
Fear of any criminal attack is one of perception, be it for a mobile phone, by racial hatred, or intolerant of one's view on a democratic process as distinct from ones racial prejudices.
Finally, I did not say you are opposed to all manner of minority groups. I said and still assert you are ANOTHER Type of racist and I suggest that you would not be tolerant to the views of SOME people living in GAZA.
breeding rascism, intolerance and fear!
So you are intolerant to Rog T's views AGAINST the BNP ideology and also, to his view on the democratic process, it makes him a racist as follows:
The only people
who like seeing the BNP standing in elections are closet supporters of their aims.
As for promoting, fear,attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, you are in danger of losing your sight and ignoring the fact that there are SOME groups carrying out such heinous acts with tragic consequences.
Pray do tell me how many instances of attacking or
harming all manner of minority groups,have you come across and reported to the police in Barnet or Hale ward.
Fear of any criminal attack is one of perception, be it for a mobile phone, by racial hatred, or intolerant of one's view on a democratic process as distinct from ones racial prejudices.
Finally, I did not say you are opposed to all manner of minority groups. I said and still assert you are ANOTHER Type of racist and I suggest that you would not be tolerant to the views of SOME people living in GAZA.
Rog T, Mill Hill says...
9:27am Sat 10 May 08
Thanks "PR Rules" for the support. In my opinion Brian is one of the worst type of fools. He attacks people who argue against the BNP (which I presume from his comments he doesn't like) just because they are more tolerant than he is. He doesn't understand that the strength of democracy is that it allows us to reject unpleasant ideologies.
I believe that only open honest debate will counter the likes of the BNP. Anyone reading through the various threads will see that time and again they duck the questions they can't answer. I know for a fact that there is a concerted campaign to portray me in a rather poor light. Luckily honest, fair minded people see through this for what it is. Once again thanks for the support.
I believe that only open honest debate will counter the likes of the BNP. Anyone reading through the various threads will see that time and again they duck the questions they can't answer. I know for a fact that there is a concerted campaign to portray me in a rather poor light. Luckily honest, fair minded people see through this for what it is. Once again thanks for the support.
faire de l'obstruction., france says...
10:41am Sat 10 May 08
Proportional Representation is true democracy in action, rather than rule by the single biggest faction.
I can understand why opponents of democracy would be upset by anything which allowed democratic representation. But Brian Gordon will just have to get over it.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Matt J on 9:03am Fri 9 May 08
Cllr Brian Gorden, you seem to think that because people had the chance to elect a small party that you don't support proportional represention should be ended. It's a sad indictment of your belief in democracy if you want to change the rules the moment someone you don't like makes progress. How would you feel if your rivals labeled your party extremist and started trying to change the rules to prevent you from winning represention. After-all, plenty of people called the Conservatives racist during the last mayoral campaign!
Cllr Brian Gorden, you seem to think that because people had the chance to elect a small party that you don't support proportional represention should be ended. It's a sad indictment of your belief in democracy if you want to change the rules the moment someone you don't like makes progress.
How would you feel if your rivals labeled your party extremist and started trying to change the rules to prevent you from winning represention. After-all, plenty of people called the Conservatives racist during the last mayoral campaign!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Janet, London on 9:08am Fri 9 May 08
Keep up the anti BNP snearing, it really helps to wake people up when they see the gravy trainers becoming ever more nasty and vindictive. Perhaps you could break the mould Brian and actually argue against specific BNP policies? Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be for?
Keep up the anti BNP snearing, it really helps to wake people up when they see the gravy trainers becoming ever more nasty and vindictive.
Perhaps you could break the mould Brian and actually argue against specific BNP policies? Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be for?Quote | Report this postPosted by: Rupert Hargreaves, London on 9:17am Fri 9 May 08
Hey Brian, what do you think of Trevor Phillips reported comment in the Scottish Herald that the BNP (and I assume the 130,000 people who voted democratically for them in London) are "LESS THAN HUMAN"? Very balanced and tolerant statement eh? Link: http://www.theherald .co.uk/news/other/di splay.var.1332541.0. 0.php
Hey Brian, what do you think of Trevor Phillips reported comment in the Scottish Herald that the BNP (and I assume the 130,000 people who voted democratically for them in London) are "LESS THAN HUMAN"?
Very balanced and tolerant statement eh?
Link: http://www.theherald
.co.uk/news/other/di
splay.var.1332541.0.
0.phpQuote | Report this postPosted by: Giles, London on 9:44am Fri 9 May 08
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure. 2)The BNP is not extreme - the Tory class politics which they try to hide is extreme and inappropriate as well and ignoring the immigration issue is negligent to say the least. 3)Conventional? conventional is returning a Labour government, but presumably you don't want that convention. 4)An indictment of PR - the people voted, why not let them decide - don't you believe in democracy? The first passed the post is plainly undemocratic, too simplistic and probably illegal by European Law, the PR system does not have to be complex, and you insult the people by maintaining they don't understand it (a typical Tory view). 5) The BNP is not fringe any more. What gives you the right to be the arbiter of what is desirable or not? 6) I am surpried your letter was even published as it is absurd and merely an ill-disguised attempt to bolster support for yourself and the Tory Party at the expense of democracy.As for the 'personal' nature of a non-PR system, the fact that people can see clearly that their local Tory MPs are caiming hundreds of thousands of pounds in 'expenses'and doing little else could impact negatively on the Party. Have you not thought of that?
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure.
2)The BNP is not extreme - the Tory class politics which they try to hide is extreme and inappropriate as well and ignoring the immigration issue is negligent to say the least.
3)Conventional? conventional is returning a Labour government, but presumably you don't want that convention.
4)An indictment of PR - the people voted, why not let them decide - don't you believe in democracy? The first passed the post is plainly undemocratic, too simplistic and probably illegal by European Law, the PR system does not have to be complex, and you insult the people by maintaining they don't understand it (a typical Tory view).
5) The BNP is not fringe any more. What gives you the right to be the arbiter of what is desirable or not?
6) I am surpried your letter was even published as it is absurd and merely an ill-disguised attempt to bolster support for yourself and the Tory Party at the expense of democracy.As for the 'personal' nature of a non-PR system, the fact that people can see clearly that their local Tory MPs are caiming hundreds of thousands of pounds in 'expenses'and doing little else could impact negatively on the Party. Have you not thought of that?Quote | Report this postPosted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 6:22pm Fri 9 May 08
Giles, I would suggest to you that if the BNP want people to work with them, they start by doing the following. 1. Announce that anyone prosecuted for any sort of racially aggrevated assault will be thrown out of the party for life. 2. Announce that they respect the rights of people of all faiths to worship as they please in mosques, churches or wherever they like. On a personal note I'd like to see them answer the question which they have dodged every time I've posed it. I got a cab ride from an Iraqi Asylum seeker from Basra. He fled with his family in fear of his life, after working with the British forces there. He did this in the belief that we would provide him with a better future for him and his family. The local militias made threats so he came here. Do the BNP think we should send him home to certain death as a collaborator. Would they help him in his asylum appeal. Would they allow him to worship in a mosque of his choice. This man is a brave man who helped our country. He would rather live in Iraq but cannot. He is very westernised and civilised, which is why he worked against radical Islamic militias. Why have the BNP dodged these questions every time I've asked them.
Giles, I would suggest to you that if the BNP want people to work with them, they start by doing the following.
1. Announce that anyone prosecuted for any sort of racially aggrevated assault will be thrown out of the party for life.
2. Announce that they respect the rights of people of all faiths to worship as they please in mosques, churches or wherever they like.
On a personal note I'd like to see them answer the question which they have dodged every time I've posed it. I got a cab ride from an Iraqi Asylum seeker from Basra. He fled with his family in fear of his life, after working with the British forces there.
He did this in the belief that we would provide him with a better future for him and his family.
The local militias made threats so he came here. Do the BNP think we should send him home to certain death as a collaborator. Would they help him in his asylum appeal. Would they allow him to worship in a mosque of his choice.
This man is a brave man who helped our country. He would rather live in Iraq but cannot. He is very westernised and civilised, which is why he worked against radical Islamic militias.
Why have the BNP dodged these questions every time I've asked them.Quote | Report this postPosted by: William J. Gibbons, Calgary, Alberta, Canada on 6:44pm Fri 9 May 08
Sir, The BNP are gaining votes simply because many white, working class Britons are feeling ignored or forgotten by the Li-Dems and the Tories. Add to this the continuing demise of the UKIP, the BNP will only gain in strength and numbers. I emigrated from the UK to Canada in 1994, and now see an increasing number of other Brits coming here, including over 100 police officers, who now patrol the streets of Calgary. And more are coming. Canada's civil society, parliamentary system and emigration policies mirror the UK's very closely indeed. Already we are experiencing ethnic gangs in our major cities which are beginning to look like war zones. If Canada does not wake up to the problems that mass immigration is causing in the UK and some European countries, then I fear that Canada will follow.
Sir,
The BNP are gaining votes simply because many white, working class Britons are feeling ignored or forgotten by the Li-Dems and the Tories. Add to this the continuing demise of the UKIP, the BNP will only gain in strength and numbers.
I emigrated from the UK to Canada in 1994, and now see an increasing number of other Brits coming here, including over 100 police officers, who now patrol the streets of Calgary. And more are coming.
Canada's civil society, parliamentary system and emigration policies mirror the UK's very closely indeed. Already we are experiencing ethnic gangs in our major cities which are beginning to look like war zones. If Canada does not wake up to the problems that mass immigration is causing in the UK and some European countries, then I fear that Canada will follow. Quote | Report this postPosted by: George Deighton, london on 7:21pm Fri 9 May 08
I would suggest that all anti BNP snork sniffing supporters who scribble their rubbish on these sites walk down to their local mosque and just walk in. The same as any tom dick or Ali can walk into a Christian church. Then I suggest any tom dick or Alan chats up an Asian girl and walks her down the street where she lives with his hand in hers, I think an experience of two such events for the anti BNP supporter would be an absolute wonderful taste of what the banana British republic as in store for them. To all those left of Watford , where were all your ethnic colleagues on May 4th when Richard Barnbrooke was elected the the GLA looking at the film footage they were all white, so get real you soapy looking scruffs, not even the immigrants supports your cause..!! .
I would suggest that all anti BNP snork sniffing supporters who scribble their rubbish on these sites walk down to their local mosque and just walk in.
The same as any tom dick or Ali can walk into a Christian church.
Then I suggest any tom dick or Alan chats up an Asian girl and walks her down the street where she lives with his hand in hers, I think an experience of two such events for the anti BNP supporter would be an absolute wonderful taste of what the banana British republic as in store for them.
To all those left of Watford , where were all your ethnic colleagues on May 4th when Richard Barnbrooke was elected the the GLA looking at the film footage they were all white, so get real you soapy looking scruffs, not even the immigrants supports your cause..!!
.
Quote | Report this postPosted by: PR Rules! on 7:46pm Fri 9 May 08
Brian, there you go, as I pointed out and very cleverly disguised by GILES comment:
Brian, there you go, as I pointed out and very cleverly disguised by GILES comment:
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure.
5) The BNP is not fringe any more.
I'm also not too sure how to read Mr Gibbons's comments, given that half my family emigrated to Halifax Nova Scotia in 1970, some of those relatives were born in India of Anglo-Irish parents.
Gang culture seems to be part of North America.Canada has probably followed and mirrored Uncle Sam next door for years.
People emigrate for very many reasons and because of Opportunity , The Vietnamese,Kenyan Ugandan Asians and countless others have contributed to Canada.
William, I would assert that is precisely why you emigrated to Canada. Oh Canada! you certainly got one in 1994.
Quote | Report this postPosted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 8:28pm Fri 9 May 08
George Deighton, I've been to a couple of Mosques and they've always been friendly and welcoming. The basis of their religion is to proseletyse, so they are bound to welcome you. I guess if you go in and start making a fuss you will get the same reception as a Protestant would if he made a fuss in a Northern Irish RC church. As to your point about holding hands with a Muslim girl. My now deceased business partner married a Turkish Muslim. He was as white as they come, looked a bit like Henry VIII actually. To the best of my knoweledge the main source of disapproving comments were from people like you. His wife's family were always fine with him. Having said that I totally agree that a minority of Muslims will behave in an atrocious manner towards inter faith couples. What I would never do is seek to use this as an excuse to behave badly myself. I also know West Indians who've been beaten up for going out with White Girls. Rise above it, don't sink. By the way I notice you didn't answer the question about the bloke from Basra, which I asked, then again you never do !!!
George Deighton,
I've been to a couple of Mosques and they've always been friendly and welcoming. The basis of their religion is to proseletyse, so they are bound to welcome you. I guess if you go in and start making a fuss you will get the same reception as a Protestant would if he made a fuss in a Northern Irish RC church.
As to your point about holding hands with a Muslim girl. My now deceased business partner married a Turkish Muslim. He was as white as they come, looked a bit like Henry VIII actually. To the best of my knoweledge the main source of disapproving comments were from people like you. His wife's family were always fine with him.
Having said that I totally agree that a minority of Muslims will behave in an atrocious manner towards inter faith couples. What I would never do is seek to use this as an excuse to behave badly myself. I also know West Indians who've been beaten up for going out with White Girls. Rise above it, don't sink.
By the way I notice you didn't answer the question about the bloke from Basra, which I asked, then again you never do !!!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Brian Gaza, Mill Hill on 9:25pm Fri 9 May 08
How can anybody say they like seeing the BNP standing in elections? breeding rascism, intolerance and fear! Rog T has stated that he likes seeing the BNP standing in elections around standing in local elections around Barnet. By doing this he has said that he likes seeing an occurance which promotes fear in and attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, other political groups, and anyone who is different in anyway. However he does have form: he regularly attacks people who have differring views. The only people who like seeing the BNP standing in elections are closet supporters of their aims.
How can anybody say they like seeing the BNP standing in elections? breeding rascism, intolerance and fear!
Rog T has stated that he likes seeing the BNP standing in elections around standing in local elections around Barnet. By doing this he has said that he likes seeing an occurance which promotes fear in and attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, other political groups, and anyone who is different in anyway. However he does have form: he regularly attacks people who have differring views.
The only people
who like seeing the BNP standing in elections are closet supporters of their aims.Quote | Report this postPosted by: PR Rules! on 10:48pm Fri 9 May 08
Brian Gaza, where in the two above posts does Rog T say he likes the BNP or their politic? I must be blind. You sound exactly like Another Type of racist who does not like living in a free democratic diverse society. Some of my relatives are Anglo-Indian or Irish Indian some brown,some white and very Catholic, they don't support the BNP or fear them. They understand how democracy works having lived and been educated in the largest democracy, It also had a Jewish community in every major city, spoke and many still speak national language as fluently as Hebrew.I shared my childhood alongside them. Do you know where that is? There is little difference between your view and the BNP. You do the English Language and our Modern Diverse Britain honed in the colonies, a great disservice, you be a bit like Brian Gordon. Sir,You owe Rog T an apology? for more reasons than one would care to think.
Brian Gaza, where in the two above posts does Rog T say he likes the BNP or their politic? I must be blind.
You sound exactly like Another Type of racist who does not like living in a free democratic diverse society. Some of my relatives are Anglo-Indian or Irish Indian some brown,some white and very Catholic, they don't support the BNP or fear them. They understand how democracy works having lived and been educated in the largest democracy, It also had a Jewish community in every major city, spoke and many still speak national language as fluently as Hebrew.I shared my childhood alongside them. Do you know where that is?
There is little difference between your view and the BNP. You do the English Language and our Modern Diverse Britain honed in the colonies, a great disservice, you be a bit like Brian Gordon.
Sir,You owe Rog T an apology? for more reasons than one would care to think.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Brian Gaza, Mill Hill on 11:02pm Fri 9 May 08
Dear PR Rules, The argument which you have just posted does not make sense, sorry. I have critised the BNP for harming all manor of minority groups, whilst you have suggested that I am opposed to all manor of minority groups. Sorry but your argument just does not add up. And if you want to read Rog T stating that he likes seeing the BNP standing in local elections around Barnet you only have to look at other stories on this site. Lets just get it on the record: I dislike the BNP because they cause fear and provoke attacks on all manor of minoroity groups. Bit of a weak argument by you PR but 9 of 10 for effort.
Dear PR Rules,
The argument which you have just posted does not make sense, sorry.
I have critised the BNP for harming all manor of minority groups, whilst you have suggested that I am opposed to all manor of minority groups. Sorry but your argument just does not add up.
And if you want to read Rog T stating that he likes seeing the BNP standing in local elections around Barnet you only have to look at other stories on this site.
Lets just get it on the record: I dislike the BNP because they cause fear and provoke attacks on all manor of minoroity groups.
Bit of a weak argument by you PR but 9 of 10 for effort.
I can understand why opponents of democracy would be upset by anything which allowed democratic representation. But Brian Gordon will just have to get over it.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Matt J on 9:03am Fri 9 May 08
Cllr Brian Gorden, you seem to think that because people had the chance to elect a small party that you don't support proportional represention should be ended. It's a sad indictment of your belief in democracy if you want to change the rules the moment someone you don't like makes progress. How would you feel if your rivals labeled your party extremist and started trying to change the rules to prevent you from winning represention. After-all, plenty of people called the Conservatives racist during the last mayoral campaign!
Cllr Brian Gorden, you seem to think that because people had the chance to elect a small party that you don't support proportional represention should be ended. It's a sad indictment of your belief in democracy if you want to change the rules the moment someone you don't like makes progress.
How would you feel if your rivals labeled your party extremist and started trying to change the rules to prevent you from winning represention. After-all, plenty of people called the Conservatives racist during the last mayoral campaign!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Janet, London on 9:08am Fri 9 May 08
Keep up the anti BNP snearing, it really helps to wake people up when they see the gravy trainers becoming ever more nasty and vindictive. Perhaps you could break the mould Brian and actually argue against specific BNP policies? Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be for?
Keep up the anti BNP snearing, it really helps to wake people up when they see the gravy trainers becoming ever more nasty and vindictive.
Perhaps you could break the mould Brian and actually argue against specific BNP policies? Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be for?Quote | Report this postPosted by: Rupert Hargreaves, London on 9:17am Fri 9 May 08
Hey Brian, what do you think of Trevor Phillips reported comment in the Scottish Herald that the BNP (and I assume the 130,000 people who voted democratically for them in London) are "LESS THAN HUMAN"? Very balanced and tolerant statement eh? Link: http://www.theherald .co.uk/news/other/di splay.var.1332541.0. 0.php
Hey Brian, what do you think of Trevor Phillips reported comment in the Scottish Herald that the BNP (and I assume the 130,000 people who voted democratically for them in London) are "LESS THAN HUMAN"?
Very balanced and tolerant statement eh?
Link: http://www.theherald
.co.uk/news/other/di
splay.var.1332541.0.
0.phpQuote | Report this postPosted by: Giles, London on 9:44am Fri 9 May 08
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure. 2)The BNP is not extreme - the Tory class politics which they try to hide is extreme and inappropriate as well and ignoring the immigration issue is negligent to say the least. 3)Conventional? conventional is returning a Labour government, but presumably you don't want that convention. 4)An indictment of PR - the people voted, why not let them decide - don't you believe in democracy? The first passed the post is plainly undemocratic, too simplistic and probably illegal by European Law, the PR system does not have to be complex, and you insult the people by maintaining they don't understand it (a typical Tory view). 5) The BNP is not fringe any more. What gives you the right to be the arbiter of what is desirable or not? 6) I am surpried your letter was even published as it is absurd and merely an ill-disguised attempt to bolster support for yourself and the Tory Party at the expense of democracy.As for the 'personal' nature of a non-PR system, the fact that people can see clearly that their local Tory MPs are caiming hundreds of thousands of pounds in 'expenses'and doing little else could impact negatively on the Party. Have you not thought of that?
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure.
2)The BNP is not extreme - the Tory class politics which they try to hide is extreme and inappropriate as well and ignoring the immigration issue is negligent to say the least.
3)Conventional? conventional is returning a Labour government, but presumably you don't want that convention.
4)An indictment of PR - the people voted, why not let them decide - don't you believe in democracy? The first passed the post is plainly undemocratic, too simplistic and probably illegal by European Law, the PR system does not have to be complex, and you insult the people by maintaining they don't understand it (a typical Tory view).
5) The BNP is not fringe any more. What gives you the right to be the arbiter of what is desirable or not?
6) I am surpried your letter was even published as it is absurd and merely an ill-disguised attempt to bolster support for yourself and the Tory Party at the expense of democracy.As for the 'personal' nature of a non-PR system, the fact that people can see clearly that their local Tory MPs are caiming hundreds of thousands of pounds in 'expenses'and doing little else could impact negatively on the Party. Have you not thought of that?Quote | Report this postPosted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 6:22pm Fri 9 May 08
Giles, I would suggest to you that if the BNP want people to work with them, they start by doing the following. 1. Announce that anyone prosecuted for any sort of racially aggrevated assault will be thrown out of the party for life. 2. Announce that they respect the rights of people of all faiths to worship as they please in mosques, churches or wherever they like. On a personal note I'd like to see them answer the question which they have dodged every time I've posed it. I got a cab ride from an Iraqi Asylum seeker from Basra. He fled with his family in fear of his life, after working with the British forces there. He did this in the belief that we would provide him with a better future for him and his family. The local militias made threats so he came here. Do the BNP think we should send him home to certain death as a collaborator. Would they help him in his asylum appeal. Would they allow him to worship in a mosque of his choice. This man is a brave man who helped our country. He would rather live in Iraq but cannot. He is very westernised and civilised, which is why he worked against radical Islamic militias. Why have the BNP dodged these questions every time I've asked them.
Giles, I would suggest to you that if the BNP want people to work with them, they start by doing the following.
1. Announce that anyone prosecuted for any sort of racially aggrevated assault will be thrown out of the party for life.
2. Announce that they respect the rights of people of all faiths to worship as they please in mosques, churches or wherever they like.
On a personal note I'd like to see them answer the question which they have dodged every time I've posed it. I got a cab ride from an Iraqi Asylum seeker from Basra. He fled with his family in fear of his life, after working with the British forces there.
He did this in the belief that we would provide him with a better future for him and his family.
The local militias made threats so he came here. Do the BNP think we should send him home to certain death as a collaborator. Would they help him in his asylum appeal. Would they allow him to worship in a mosque of his choice.
This man is a brave man who helped our country. He would rather live in Iraq but cannot. He is very westernised and civilised, which is why he worked against radical Islamic militias.
Why have the BNP dodged these questions every time I've asked them.Quote | Report this postPosted by: William J. Gibbons, Calgary, Alberta, Canada on 6:44pm Fri 9 May 08
Sir, The BNP are gaining votes simply because many white, working class Britons are feeling ignored or forgotten by the Li-Dems and the Tories. Add to this the continuing demise of the UKIP, the BNP will only gain in strength and numbers. I emigrated from the UK to Canada in 1994, and now see an increasing number of other Brits coming here, including over 100 police officers, who now patrol the streets of Calgary. And more are coming. Canada's civil society, parliamentary system and emigration policies mirror the UK's very closely indeed. Already we are experiencing ethnic gangs in our major cities which are beginning to look like war zones. If Canada does not wake up to the problems that mass immigration is causing in the UK and some European countries, then I fear that Canada will follow.
Sir,
The BNP are gaining votes simply because many white, working class Britons are feeling ignored or forgotten by the Li-Dems and the Tories. Add to this the continuing demise of the UKIP, the BNP will only gain in strength and numbers.
I emigrated from the UK to Canada in 1994, and now see an increasing number of other Brits coming here, including over 100 police officers, who now patrol the streets of Calgary. And more are coming.
Canada's civil society, parliamentary system and emigration policies mirror the UK's very closely indeed. Already we are experiencing ethnic gangs in our major cities which are beginning to look like war zones. If Canada does not wake up to the problems that mass immigration is causing in the UK and some European countries, then I fear that Canada will follow. Quote | Report this postPosted by: George Deighton, london on 7:21pm Fri 9 May 08
I would suggest that all anti BNP snork sniffing supporters who scribble their rubbish on these sites walk down to their local mosque and just walk in. The same as any tom dick or Ali can walk into a Christian church. Then I suggest any tom dick or Alan chats up an Asian girl and walks her down the street where she lives with his hand in hers, I think an experience of two such events for the anti BNP supporter would be an absolute wonderful taste of what the banana British republic as in store for them. To all those left of Watford , where were all your ethnic colleagues on May 4th when Richard Barnbrooke was elected the the GLA looking at the film footage they were all white, so get real you soapy looking scruffs, not even the immigrants supports your cause..!! .
I would suggest that all anti BNP snork sniffing supporters who scribble their rubbish on these sites walk down to their local mosque and just walk in.
The same as any tom dick or Ali can walk into a Christian church.
Then I suggest any tom dick or Alan chats up an Asian girl and walks her down the street where she lives with his hand in hers, I think an experience of two such events for the anti BNP supporter would be an absolute wonderful taste of what the banana British republic as in store for them.
To all those left of Watford , where were all your ethnic colleagues on May 4th when Richard Barnbrooke was elected the the GLA looking at the film footage they were all white, so get real you soapy looking scruffs, not even the immigrants supports your cause..!!
.
Quote | Report this postPosted by: PR Rules! on 7:46pm Fri 9 May 08
Brian, there you go, as I pointed out and very cleverly disguised by GILES comment:
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure.
5) The BNP is not fringe any more.I'm also not too sure how to read Mr Gibbons's comments, given that half my family emigrated to Halifax Nova Scotia in 1970, some of those relatives were born in India of Anglo-Irish parents. Gang culture seems to be part of North America.Canada has probably followed and mirrored Uncle Sam next door for years. People emigrate for very many reasons and because of Opportunity , The Vietnamese,Kenyan Ugandan Asians and countless others have contributed to Canada. William, I would assert that is precisely why you emigrated to Canada. Oh Canada! you certainly got one in 1994.
Brian, there you go, as I pointed out and very cleverly disguised by GILES comment:
1) Sour taste for whom - not for the BNP voters I'm sure.
5) The BNP is not fringe any more.
I'm also not too sure how to read Mr Gibbons's comments, given that half my family emigrated to Halifax Nova Scotia in 1970, some of those relatives were born in India of Anglo-Irish parents.
Gang culture seems to be part of North America.Canada has probably followed and mirrored Uncle Sam next door for years.
People emigrate for very many reasons and because of Opportunity , The Vietnamese,Kenyan Ugandan Asians and countless others have contributed to Canada.
William, I would assert that is precisely why you emigrated to Canada. Oh Canada! you certainly got one in 1994.
Quote | Report this postPosted by: Rog T, Mill Hill on 8:28pm Fri 9 May 08
George Deighton, I've been to a couple of Mosques and they've always been friendly and welcoming. The basis of their religion is to proseletyse, so they are bound to welcome you. I guess if you go in and start making a fuss you will get the same reception as a Protestant would if he made a fuss in a Northern Irish RC church. As to your point about holding hands with a Muslim girl. My now deceased business partner married a Turkish Muslim. He was as white as they come, looked a bit like Henry VIII actually. To the best of my knoweledge the main source of disapproving comments were from people like you. His wife's family were always fine with him. Having said that I totally agree that a minority of Muslims will behave in an atrocious manner towards inter faith couples. What I would never do is seek to use this as an excuse to behave badly myself. I also know West Indians who've been beaten up for going out with White Girls. Rise above it, don't sink. By the way I notice you didn't answer the question about the bloke from Basra, which I asked, then again you never do !!!
George Deighton,
I've been to a couple of Mosques and they've always been friendly and welcoming. The basis of their religion is to proseletyse, so they are bound to welcome you. I guess if you go in and start making a fuss you will get the same reception as a Protestant would if he made a fuss in a Northern Irish RC church.
As to your point about holding hands with a Muslim girl. My now deceased business partner married a Turkish Muslim. He was as white as they come, looked a bit like Henry VIII actually. To the best of my knoweledge the main source of disapproving comments were from people like you. His wife's family were always fine with him.
Having said that I totally agree that a minority of Muslims will behave in an atrocious manner towards inter faith couples. What I would never do is seek to use this as an excuse to behave badly myself. I also know West Indians who've been beaten up for going out with White Girls. Rise above it, don't sink.
By the way I notice you didn't answer the question about the bloke from Basra, which I asked, then again you never do !!!Quote | Report this postPosted by: Brian Gaza, Mill Hill on 9:25pm Fri 9 May 08
How can anybody say they like seeing the BNP standing in elections? breeding rascism, intolerance and fear! Rog T has stated that he likes seeing the BNP standing in elections around standing in local elections around Barnet. By doing this he has said that he likes seeing an occurance which promotes fear in and attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, other political groups, and anyone who is different in anyway. However he does have form: he regularly attacks people who have differring views. The only people who like seeing the BNP standing in elections are closet supporters of their aims.
How can anybody say they like seeing the BNP standing in elections? breeding rascism, intolerance and fear!
Rog T has stated that he likes seeing the BNP standing in elections around standing in local elections around Barnet. By doing this he has said that he likes seeing an occurance which promotes fear in and attacks on Religous Groups, Racial Groups, Minority Groups, Homosexuals, other political groups, and anyone who is different in anyway. However he does have form: he regularly attacks people who have differring views.
The only people
who like seeing the BNP standing in elections are closet supporters of their aims.Quote | Report this postPosted by: PR Rules! on 10:48pm Fri 9 May 08
Brian Gaza, where in the two above posts does Rog T say he likes the BNP or their politic? I must be blind. You sound exactly like Another Type of racist who does not like living in a free democratic diverse society. Some of my relatives are Anglo-Indian or Irish Indian some brown,some white and very Catholic, they don't support the BNP or fear them. They understand how democracy works having lived and been educated in the largest democracy, It also had a Jewish community in every major city, spoke and many still speak national language as fluently as Hebrew.I shared my childhood alongside them. Do you know where that is? There is little difference between your view and the BNP. You do the English Language and our Modern Diverse Britain honed in the colonies, a great disservice, you be a bit like Brian Gordon. Sir,You owe Rog T an apology? for more reasons than one would care to think.
Brian Gaza, where in the two above posts does Rog T say he likes the BNP or their politic? I must be blind.
You sound exactly like Another Type of racist who does not like living in a free democratic diverse society. Some of my relatives are Anglo-Indian or Irish Indian some brown,some white and very Catholic, they don't support the BNP or fear them. They understand how democracy works having lived and been educated in the largest democracy, It also had a Jewish community in every major city, spoke and many still speak national language as fluently as Hebrew.I shared my childhood alongside them. Do you know where that is?
There is little difference between your view and the BNP. You do the English Language and our Modern Diverse Britain honed in the colonies, a great disservice, you be a bit like Brian Gordon.
Sir,You owe Rog T an apology? for more reasons than one would care to think.Quote | Report this postPosted by: Brian Gaza, Mill Hill on 11:02pm Fri 9 May 08
Dear PR Rules, The argument which you have just posted does not make sense, sorry. I have critised the BNP for harming all manor of minority groups, whilst you have suggested that I am opposed to all manor of minority groups. Sorry but your argument just does not add up. And if you want to read Rog T stating that he likes seeing the BNP standing in local elections around Barnet you only have to look at other stories on this site. Lets just get it on the record: I dislike the BNP because they cause fear and provoke attacks on all manor of minoroity groups. Bit of a weak argument by you PR but 9 of 10 for effort.
Dear PR Rules,
The argument which you have just posted does not make sense, sorry.
I have critised the BNP for harming all manor of minority groups, whilst you have suggested that I am opposed to all manor of minority groups. Sorry but your argument just does not add up.
And if you want to read Rog T stating that he likes seeing the BNP standing in local elections around Barnet you only have to look at other stories on this site.
Lets just get it on the record: I dislike the BNP because they cause fear and provoke attacks on all manor of minoroity groups.
Bit of a weak argument by you PR but 9 of 10 for effort.
PR Rules!, says...
10:49am Sat 10 May 08
Broadcast Quality. I lived and grew up in MH Broadway next door to the synanogue.I now live on a council estate. Most of the council estates around Hale have been sold off to
'Now I'm Tory' voters, because the large majority were houses. Here your hatred is directed towards voters on council estates.
Last week I buried a Jewish friend observing all of their funeral rituals my two closest friends are an Israeli and a Pakistani. Maybe, if you analysed the various ethnic groups of Hale, you might be more than surprised which group voted BNP against the group that is neither Gentile or Jew, but it's obvious. So here are my quotes from my earlier post:
Finally I speak Hindi Urdu German, (the latter does not make me a Nazi).I also spoke Cantonese, until we were posted back to India.My Partner is foreign.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.He removes the greatest ornament of friendship, who takes away from it respect. (Cicero,106-43BC)
'Now I'm Tory' voters, because the large majority were houses. Here your hatred is directed towards voters on council estates.
Last week I buried a Jewish friend observing all of their funeral rituals my two closest friends are an Israeli and a Pakistani. Maybe, if you analysed the various ethnic groups of Hale, you might be more than surprised which group voted BNP against the group that is neither Gentile or Jew, but it's obvious. So here are my quotes from my earlier post:
Some of my relatives are Anglo-Indian or Irish Indian some brown,some white
having lived and been educated in the largest democracy, It also had a Jewish community in every major city, spoke and many still speak national language as fluently as Hebrew.I shared my childhood alongside them. Do you know where that is?
some of those relatives were born in India of Anglo-Irish parents
Finally I speak Hindi Urdu German, (the latter does not make me a Nazi).I also spoke Cantonese, until we were posted back to India.My Partner is foreign.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.He removes the greatest ornament of friendship, who takes away from it respect. (Cicero,106-43BC)
Brian Gaza, Hale says...
10:58am Sat 10 May 08
Hi PR rules, you are a dim wit.
Anybody who wants to learn about the sort of harm BNP style ideologies cause should read this:
Luis ... had read a report on the soccer match between the Honduran and Salvadoran national teams. The two countries were playing for the right to take part in the 1970 World Cup in Mexico. The first match was held on Sunday 8 June 1969, in the Honduran capital, Tegucigalpa.
Nobody in the world paid any attention.
The Salvadoran team arrived in Tegucigalpa on Saturday and spent a sleepless night in their hotel. The team could not sleep because it was the target of psychological warfare waged by the Honduran fans. A swarm of people encircled the hotel. The crowd threw stones at the windows and beat sheets of tin and empty barrels with sticks. They set off one set of firecrackers after another. They leaned on the horn of cars parked in front of the hotel. The fans whistled, screamed and sent up hostile chants. This went on all night. The idea was that a sleepy, edgy, exhausted team would be bound to lose. In Latin America these are common practices.
The next day Honduras defeated the sleepless El Salvador squad one-nil.
Eighteen-year-old Amelia Bolanios was sitting in front of the television in El Salvador when the Honduran striker Roberto Cardona scored the winning goal in the final minute. She got up and ran to the desk which contained her fathers pistol in a drawer. She then shot herself in the heart. The young girl could not bear to see her fatherland brought to its knees, wrote the Salvadoran newspaper El Nacional the next day. The whole capital took part in the televised funeral of Amelia Bolanios. An army honour guard marched with a flag at the head of the procession. The president of the republic and his ministers walked behind the flag-draped coffin. Behind the government came the Salvadoran soccer eleven who, booed, laughed at, and spat on at the Tegucigalpa airport, had returned to El Salvador on a special flight that morning.
But the return match of the series took place in San Salvador, the beautifully named Flor Blanca stadium, a week later. This time it was the Honduran team that spent a sleepless night. The screaming crowd of fans broke all the windows in the hotel and threw rotten eggs, dead rats and stinking rags inside. The players were taken to the match in armoured cars of the First Salvadoran Mechanized Division - which saved them from revenge and bloodshed at the hands of the mob that lined the route, holding up portraits of the national heroine Amelia Bolanios.
The army surrounded the ground. On the pitch stood a cordon of soldiers from a crack regiment of the Guardia Nacional, armed with sub-machine-guns. During the playing of the Honduran national anthem the crowd roared and whistled. Next, instead of the Honduran flagwhich had been burnt before the eyes of the spectators, driving them mad with joythe hosts ran a dirty, tattered dishrag up the flag-pole. Under such conditions the players from Tegucigalpa did not, understandably, have their minds on the game. They had their minds on getting out alive. Were awfully lucky that we lost, said the visiting coach, Mario Griffin, with relief.
El Salvador prevailed, three-nil.
The same armoured cars carried the Honduran team straight from the playing field to the airport. A worse fate awaited the visiting fans. Kicked and beaten, they fled towards the border. Two of them died. Scores landed in hospital. One hundred and fifty of the visitors cars were burned. The border between the two states was closed a few hours later.
Luis read about all of this in the newspaper and said that there was going to be a war. He had been a reporter for a long time and he knew his beat.
In Latin America, he said, the border between soccer and politics is vague. There is a long list of governments that have fallen or been overthrown after the defeat of the national team. Players on the losing team are denounced in the press as traitors. When Brazil won the World Cup in Mexico, an exiled Brazilian colleague of mine was heartbroken: The military right wing, he said, can be assured of at least five more years of peaceful rule. On the way to the title, Brazil beat England. In an article with the headline Jesus Defends Brazil, the Rio de Janeiro paper Jornal dos Sportes explained the victory thus:
'Whenever the ball flew towards our goal and a score seemed inevitable, Jesus reached his foot out of the clouds and cleared the ball. Drawings accompanied the article, illustrating the supernatural intervention.
Anyone at the stadium can lose his life. Take the match Mexico lost to Peru, two-one. An embittered Mexican in an ironic tone, Viva Mexico! A moment later be was dead, massacred by the crowd. But sometimes the heightened emotions find an outlet in other ways. After Mexico beat Belgium one-nil, Augusto Mariaga, the warden of a maximum-security prison in Chilpancingo (Guerrero State, Mexico), became delirious with joy and ran around firing a pistol into the air and shouting, Viva Mexico! He opened all the cells, releasing 142 dangerous hardened criminals. A court acquitted him later, as, according to the verdict, he had acted in patriotic exaltation.
Do you think its worth going to Honduras? I asked Luis, who was then editing the serious and influential weekly Siempre.
I think its worth it, he answered. Somethings bound to happen.
I was in Tegucigalpa the next morning.
At dusk a plane flew over Tegucigalpa and dropped a bomb. Everybody heard it. The nearby mountains echoed its violent blast so that some said later that a whole series of bombs had been dropped. Panic swept the city. People fled home; merchants closed their shops. Cars were abandoned in the middle of the street. A woman ran along the pavement, crying, My child! My child! Then silence fell and everything became still. It was as if the city had died. The lights went out and Tegucigalpa sank into darkness.
I hurried to the hotel, burst into my room, fed a piece of paper into the typewriter and tried to write a dispatch to Warsaw. I was trying to move fast because I knew that at that moment I was the only foreign correspondent there and that I could be the first to inform the world about the outbreak of the war in Central America. But it was pitch dark in the room and I couldnt see anything. I felt my way downstairs to the reception desk, where I was lent a candle. I went back upstairs, lit the candle and turned on my transistor radio. The announcer was reading a communiqué from the Honduran government about the commencement of hostilities with El Salvador. Then came the news that the Salvadoran army was attacking Honduras all along the front line.
Anybody who wants to learn about the sort of harm BNP style ideologies cause should read this:
Luis ... had read a report on the soccer match between the Honduran and Salvadoran national teams. The two countries were playing for the right to take part in the 1970 World Cup in Mexico. The first match was held on Sunday 8 June 1969, in the Honduran capital, Tegucigalpa.
Nobody in the world paid any attention.
The Salvadoran team arrived in Tegucigalpa on Saturday and spent a sleepless night in their hotel. The team could not sleep because it was the target of psychological warfare waged by the Honduran fans. A swarm of people encircled the hotel. The crowd threw stones at the windows and beat sheets of tin and empty barrels with sticks. They set off one set of firecrackers after another. They leaned on the horn of cars parked in front of the hotel. The fans whistled, screamed and sent up hostile chants. This went on all night. The idea was that a sleepy, edgy, exhausted team would be bound to lose. In Latin America these are common practices.
The next day Honduras defeated the sleepless El Salvador squad one-nil.
Eighteen-year-old Amelia Bolanios was sitting in front of the television in El Salvador when the Honduran striker Roberto Cardona scored the winning goal in the final minute. She got up and ran to the desk which contained her fathers pistol in a drawer. She then shot herself in the heart. The young girl could not bear to see her fatherland brought to its knees, wrote the Salvadoran newspaper El Nacional the next day. The whole capital took part in the televised funeral of Amelia Bolanios. An army honour guard marched with a flag at the head of the procession. The president of the republic and his ministers walked behind the flag-draped coffin. Behind the government came the Salvadoran soccer eleven who, booed, laughed at, and spat on at the Tegucigalpa airport, had returned to El Salvador on a special flight that morning.
But the return match of the series took place in San Salvador, the beautifully named Flor Blanca stadium, a week later. This time it was the Honduran team that spent a sleepless night. The screaming crowd of fans broke all the windows in the hotel and threw rotten eggs, dead rats and stinking rags inside. The players were taken to the match in armoured cars of the First Salvadoran Mechanized Division - which saved them from revenge and bloodshed at the hands of the mob that lined the route, holding up portraits of the national heroine Amelia Bolanios.
The army surrounded the ground. On the pitch stood a cordon of soldiers from a crack regiment of the Guardia Nacional, armed with sub-machine-guns. During the playing of the Honduran national anthem the crowd roared and whistled. Next, instead of the Honduran flagwhich had been burnt before the eyes of the spectators, driving them mad with joythe hosts ran a dirty, tattered dishrag up the flag-pole. Under such conditions the players from Tegucigalpa did not, understandably, have their minds on the game. They had their minds on getting out alive. Were awfully lucky that we lost, said the visiting coach, Mario Griffin, with relief.
El Salvador prevailed, three-nil.
The same armoured cars carried the Honduran team straight from the playing field to the airport. A worse fate awaited the visiting fans. Kicked and beaten, they fled towards the border. Two of them died. Scores landed in hospital. One hundred and fifty of the visitors cars were burned. The border between the two states was closed a few hours later.
Luis read about all of this in the newspaper and said that there was going to be a war. He had been a reporter for a long time and he knew his beat.
In Latin America, he said, the border between soccer and politics is vague. There is a long list of governments that have fallen or been overthrown after the defeat of the national team. Players on the losing team are denounced in the press as traitors. When Brazil won the World Cup in Mexico, an exiled Brazilian colleague of mine was heartbroken: The military right wing, he said, can be assured of at least five more years of peaceful rule. On the way to the title, Brazil beat England. In an article with the headline Jesus Defends Brazil, the Rio de Janeiro paper Jornal dos Sportes explained the victory thus:
'Whenever the ball flew towards our goal and a score seemed inevitable, Jesus reached his foot out of the clouds and cleared the ball. Drawings accompanied the article, illustrating the supernatural intervention.
Anyone at the stadium can lose his life. Take the match Mexico lost to Peru, two-one. An embittered Mexican in an ironic tone, Viva Mexico! A moment later be was dead, massacred by the crowd. But sometimes the heightened emotions find an outlet in other ways. After Mexico beat Belgium one-nil, Augusto Mariaga, the warden of a maximum-security prison in Chilpancingo (Guerrero State, Mexico), became delirious with joy and ran around firing a pistol into the air and shouting, Viva Mexico! He opened all the cells, releasing 142 dangerous hardened criminals. A court acquitted him later, as, according to the verdict, he had acted in patriotic exaltation.
Do you think its worth going to Honduras? I asked Luis, who was then editing the serious and influential weekly Siempre.
I think its worth it, he answered. Somethings bound to happen.
I was in Tegucigalpa the next morning.
At dusk a plane flew over Tegucigalpa and dropped a bomb. Everybody heard it. The nearby mountains echoed its violent blast so that some said later that a whole series of bombs had been dropped. Panic swept the city. People fled home; merchants closed their shops. Cars were abandoned in the middle of the street. A woman ran along the pavement, crying, My child! My child! Then silence fell and everything became still. It was as if the city had died. The lights went out and Tegucigalpa sank into darkness.
I hurried to the hotel, burst into my room, fed a piece of paper into the typewriter and tried to write a dispatch to Warsaw. I was trying to move fast because I knew that at that moment I was the only foreign correspondent there and that I could be the first to inform the world about the outbreak of the war in Central America. But it was pitch dark in the room and I couldnt see anything. I felt my way downstairs to the reception desk, where I was lent a candle. I went back upstairs, lit the candle and turned on my transistor radio. The announcer was reading a communiqué from the Honduran government about the commencement of hostilities with El Salvador. Then came the news that the Salvadoran army was attacking Honduras all along the front line.
Rog T, Mill Hill says...
11:39am Sat 10 May 08
Brian Gaza,
Your stupidity is only matched by your pomposity. You can lie all you like about me, anyone who has seen the posts will know the truth. Anyone who hasn't will probably guess from what you write that it is nonsense.
If the BNP were banned from standing, who would know that in Hale Ward their support was less than 4% of the electorate.
Richard Barnbrook, the BNP mayoral candidate got around 5% of first and second preference votes. The BNP usually claim that many of their voters had to vote Tory to keep the likes of Ken Livingstone out. This has been exposed as a lie. Given that their voters are probably more likely to vote than mainstream parties, 5% is probably a high tide mark. What you advocate is giving them the opportunity to claim they are disenfranchised and that they have millions of supporters who can't express their opinion.
Even Ken Livingstone supported their right to stand. Is he a closet BNP supporter.
What really makes me sick about people like you is that you will post endless waffle slagging me off, but you haven't got the balls to argue with the BNP. By the way I contacted the Times and it seems that the offensive posts left about me were left ny people who didn't give valid email addresses.
What a brave bunch you are. I beleive that the BNP will always be defeated by rational argument and reason.
Don't you? I've spent time in totalitarian countries and I can assure you that banning parties doesn't work.
May I remind you of Churchill's quote "Democracy is the worst system apart from all the others"
What you want is the first step to a totalitarian regime of "approved parties"
Your stupidity is only matched by your pomposity. You can lie all you like about me, anyone who has seen the posts will know the truth. Anyone who hasn't will probably guess from what you write that it is nonsense.
If the BNP were banned from standing, who would know that in Hale Ward their support was less than 4% of the electorate.
Richard Barnbrook, the BNP mayoral candidate got around 5% of first and second preference votes. The BNP usually claim that many of their voters had to vote Tory to keep the likes of Ken Livingstone out. This has been exposed as a lie. Given that their voters are probably more likely to vote than mainstream parties, 5% is probably a high tide mark. What you advocate is giving them the opportunity to claim they are disenfranchised and that they have millions of supporters who can't express their opinion.
Even Ken Livingstone supported their right to stand. Is he a closet BNP supporter.
What really makes me sick about people like you is that you will post endless waffle slagging me off, but you haven't got the balls to argue with the BNP. By the way I contacted the Times and it seems that the offensive posts left about me were left ny people who didn't give valid email addresses.
What a brave bunch you are. I beleive that the BNP will always be defeated by rational argument and reason.
Don't you? I've spent time in totalitarian countries and I can assure you that banning parties doesn't work.
May I remind you of Churchill's quote "Democracy is the worst system apart from all the others"
What you want is the first step to a totalitarian regime of "approved parties"
Brian Gaza, Hale says...
12:36pm Sat 10 May 08
And now Rog T you are just resorting to making things up
Which is probably not unusual for you, but it does demean your argument.
Which is probably not unusual for you, but it does demean your argument.
Democracy Rules, says...
12:56pm Sat 10 May 08
I am absolutely livid. This is the latest in a long line of governmental decisions that compromise the quality of life of UK tax-paying residents. We are hurtling towards an Orwellian dystopia and no-one is doing a f*cking thing about it!
Roger, says...
1:13pm Sat 10 May 08
There are people abound who apologise for the BNP whilst regarding any opposition as being personally offensive.
We should be scared of such individuals.
We should be scared of such individuals.
Inspiration, Barnet says...
1:46pm Sat 10 May 08
There is an old saying: don't wrestle with pigs, they just enjoy it.
It is apparent that the reasonable people trying to reason with Rog T are wasting their time: He's entrenched and just enjoys the rumpus.
It is apparent that the reasonable people trying to reason with Rog T are wasting their time: He's entrenched and just enjoys the rumpus.
PR Rules!, says...
1:59pm Sat 10 May 08
There are people
Nobody here been an APOLOGIST, as there has been no defence amounting to a justification of the BNP's ideology. If you need to understand 'minority or some Apologist', then think about 7th July 2005 in Russell Sq.
The clown who feebly attempts an analogy of Spanish speaking South American Football tribalism and hooligan culture, similar to that of Britains football terrace culture of the 70's, is once again showing he is a stark raving idiot.
One might beleive there is a case for accepting it really is a 3rd class education and a waste of taxpayers money on Free british education,it shows.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.He removes the greatest ornament of friendship, who takes away from it respect. (Cicero,106-43BC)
abound who apologise for the BNP whilst regarding any opposition as being personally offensive.
We should be scared of such individuals.
Nobody here been an APOLOGIST, as there has been no defence amounting to a justification of the BNP's ideology. If you need to understand 'minority or some Apologist', then think about 7th July 2005 in Russell Sq.
The clown who feebly attempts an analogy of Spanish speaking South American Football tribalism and hooligan culture, similar to that of Britains football terrace culture of the 70's, is once again showing he is a stark raving idiot.
One might beleive there is a case for accepting it really is a 3rd class education and a waste of taxpayers money on Free british education,it shows.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.He removes the greatest ornament of friendship, who takes away from it respect. (Cicero,106-43BC)
PR Rules!, says...
2:09pm Sat 10 May 08
Democracy Rules. There is a great deal of truth in what you say, taxpaying or otherwise.We are heading down the the road of a 'Soft' kind of Stalinism.
You are doing something about it
George Orwell real name Eric Arthur Blair
25 June 1903(1903-06-25)Moti
hari, Bihar, India.
Was he really an Indian? or an Anglo-Indian
You are doing something about it
George Orwell real name Eric Arthur Blair
25 June 1903(1903-06-25)Moti
hari, Bihar, India.
Was he really an Indian? or an Anglo-Indian
Rog T, Mill Hill says...
7:28pm Thu 8 May 08
Nice to see a Barnet Tory come out agains the BNP. Just a little correction. They got less than 4%, not 5%. In this case I suggest you don't round this up. Making their vote more than 25% bigger than it really is should definitely be avoided.